Syracuse

L.C. Smith - Syracuse Guns 1886-1888 By J. David Williamson There are no existing records for the shotguns produced by L.C. Smith in Syracuse. The serial number range is thought to be between 15,00022,500. What is known is that they were made in 10 gauge and 12 gauge with 30” and 32” barrels. All barrels were Damascus, and the Grades ranged from Quality 2 through Quality 7. Price was Quality 2- $80.00 and Quality 7- $450.00, In doing this research, I have come to the conclusion that guns with serial numbers in the 16xxx, 18xxx, 19xxx, 20xxx, and up to 22500 are hammerless shotguns and 15xxx, 17xxx, 21xxx, 24,xxx and 25xxx and 26xxx range are hammer guns. From an old 3” x 6” notepad that Lyman Cornelius Smith handed down upon selling the gun works, the Syracuse L.C. Smith records for the first year of hammerless shotguns show that 281 were produced. Fifteen were returned for credit leaving 266 guns sold the first year. (from Brophy’s L.C. Smith Shotguns, 1977).

The hammerless shotgun went into production in August, 1886. Production totals by month were: August 14 September 96 October 73 November 82 December 66 Total 281 Returns - 15 266 Total sold August to December, 1886

Production stopped sometime in 1888 when Lyman C. Smith, Maker, sold the company to John Hunter. Also records for 1888 include no production figures. During the period of 1888 to 1890, machinery and equipment was being moved from Syracuse to Fulton (about 30 miles). Once in Fulton, changes were made in the design. Shotguns from Syracuse finished in Fulton have the Fulton address, but serial numbers reflect Syracuse origin. (from Brophy’s book page 193). There are recorded instances where Syracuse shotguns were sent to Fulton for re-barreling, and there are recorded serial numbers that overlap Syracuse shotguns with Fulton shotguns. This can be seen on a few of the serial numbers listed *, too low for Fulton but have the shape and the convex lumps of the Syracuse shotgun. Very early Fulton guns also have this feature.** It has been noted that some have been seen with the squared lug, and we now have pictures of a few in the 30-31xxx serial number range. The records for serial numbers 22501-27765 are lost, and are Fulton shotguns. This would have to be after 22501 because 22631 has its original hang tag from Syracuse. See L.C. Smith “The Legend Lives” page 488. Patent numbers and dates: First patent #274,435 March 20, 1883, Breech-loading mechanism, joint and ejector system. Some guns are have a patent date of March 29,’83 Second patent #345,362 July 13, 1886, lock mechanism for concealed hammer guns (L.C. Smith Hammerless shotgun) Third patent #350,109 October 5, 1886 Safety catch for gun locks, (Automatic and Independent safety-3 position)

1884-1886 L.C. Smith hammer guns 10020

Quality E

10 ga.

32” barrels stub twist

10046

Quality F

10 ga.

30” barrels stub twist

10203

Quality E

12 ga.

Cut barrels

10362 Quality E

12 ga.

19 ¼” (cut), L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse, N.Y.

10385

Quality D

10 ga.

30” barrels, 8 lb.10 oz. Syracuse butt plate

10501

Quality E

12 ga.

109xx

Quality E

12 ga.

11233 Quality F

10 ga.

30” barrels

32” barrels, original butt plate (Gunbroker 11-10 pictures)

11569

Quality E

10 ga.

28” barrels cut

11946

Quality E

10 ga.

30” barrels

12024

Quality D

12 ga.

-44-40 Combo gun with 30” barrels

12094

Quality E

10 ga.

30” barrels

12231

Quality F

10 ga.

30” barrels

12858

Quality F

10 ga?

12952

Quality F

10 ga.

32” barrels, 10 lb. 8 oz.

13229

Quality E

10 ga.

32” barrels, 11 lb. 8 oz., 3” chambers

13326

Quality F

10 ga.

28 ¼” barrels Stub Twist (cut)

13483

Quality F

12 ga.

(dog with foot on rock)

135xx

Quality F

12 ga.

30” Stub Twist barrels (pictures)

14438

Quality F

12 ga.

30” barrels Stub Twist

14497

Quality C

10 ga.

14629

Quality F

12 ga.

Barrels cut to 18 ½” WF & Co.

Ex stamped on receiver (Wells Fargo and Com.), Gun Broker

1886-1888 Hammer and Hammerless L.C. Smiths Italics, hammer guns 32” barrels

^15060

Quality E 10 ga.

151xx

Quality F 10 ga.

^15624

Quality E 12 ga.

30” barrels

15279

Quality F 12 ga.

30” barrels, Sub Twist

^15750

Quality E 10 ga.

30” barrels

^15754

Quality E 10 ga.

32” barrel, 10 lb. 8 oz., 3” chambers

^15996

Quality E 10 ga.

32” barrels

16036

Quality 3 10 ga. (pictures)

32” barrels, (no patent dates),

16200

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels, 1 1/8 c/c firing pins

^16211

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

16272

Quality 10 ga. Pat’ date of only Mar.20 ,’83, so gun has to be early production of 1886 when the hammerless first came out (from “L.C. Smith Shotguns )

162xx

Quality 2 10 ga.

28” barrels (catalog states 30” or 32”

barrels)

16294

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

16xxx

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels, (possibly heavy frame)

16342

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels, 1886

16344

Quality 2 10 ga.

29 ½” barrels (cut, probably 32” once),

pictures, not original butt plate (.013 in one choke)

16362

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels

16397

Quality 2 12 ga.

(one patent date-Mar.29,’83)

16425

Quality 2 10 ga. oz.

29.8” barrels (one patent date), 8 lb. 4

^16447

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

^16453

Quality 4 12 ga.

30” barrels

^16464

Quality 5 10 ga.

32” barrels

16510

Quality 2 10 ga.

*16566

Quality 2 12 ga.

^16576

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

(barrels cut to 26 1/8”), (all three patent dates), Dogs head escutcheon on forend, rounded lug-Fulton shaped side plates

30” barrels (on Gun Broker being sold 6-5-2011

original s/n number from Russ Ruppel’s research)

16656

Quality 4 12 ga. 30“ barrels (all three patent dates.) , Date: Oct-Dec, 1886, (pictures) pistol grip- capped, wrong re-case & blue

*16750

Quality 4 12 ga.

30” barrels

^16764

Quality 3 10 ga.

32” barrels

16765

Quality 3 12 ga.

29 13/16” barrels (could be 30”)

16769

Quality 3 10 ga.

30” barrels m/f (listed as 90% condition) full capped pistol grip, Trap Gun butt plate, (pictures)

^16775

Quality 3 10 ga.

30” barrels

^16776

Quality 3 10 ga. date), 2.76 rec.

32” barrels (only Mar.20,’83 patent

16804

Quality 2 10 ga. date)

30” barrels (only Mar.20,’83 patent

16864

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels (dog and duck Trap Gun butt

plate)

*16905

(Catalog 1888, testimonial from customer dated April 16,

1887 that he received gun one week ago today), 1st Qtr. 1887 made 16936

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

16992

Quality 3 10 ga.

32” barrels

17106

Quality F 12 ga.

32” barrels (Guns America)

17308

Quality F 10 ga.

32” barrels

^17609

Quality D 12 ga.

30” barrel, scroll 28 lpi checkering

^17675

Quality F 12 ga.

32” barrels, trap gun-line engraving

17739

Quality F 12 ga.

30” barrels

17843

Quality F 10 ga.

30” barrels

17862

Quality F 10 ga.

30” barrel, good condition

^17870

Quality F 10 ga.

? barrels

17883

Quality F 10 ga.

30” barrels

17905

Quality E 10 ga.

17912

Quality E 12 ga.

30” barrels

17914

Quality F 12 ga.

32” barrels

17961

Quality F 10 ga. N.Y.)

Stub twist barrels (marked Syracuse

18055

Quality 2 10 ga.

31” barrels-cut

18082 Quality 4

gun is parted out, Grouse with young and

weasel, other side woodcock

*18123 18154

Quality 2 12 ga.

26” & 30” barrels

10 ga. from an early 1889 L.C. Smith catalog. Testimonial from customer dated July 31, 1887 saying he patterned gun and results were better than hang tag. Arrived at 10 ga from powder used in tests.

^18168

Quality 2 10 ga. order)

28” barrels (possibly cut or special

18173

Quality 2 10 ga.

30”

18185

Quality 3 10 ga.

32” barrels 10 lb. 2 oz., Trap butt plate

18192

Quality 3 12 ga.

30” barrels

18239

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels, 11 lb. 2 oz.

18255

Quality 4 16 ga. now 26” barrels (barrels made in Fulton to 16 ga., have Hunter Arms, Fulton on ext. rib.)

18291

Quality 2 10 ga.

28” barrels (cut?), original butt plate

18324

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels 10 lb., bores: .801/798

(thought to be 8 ga.)

18325

Quality 2 10 ga. very worn

18337

Quality 2 10 ga

28” barrels (cut) butt plate original but

18358

Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels, original butt plate, dog on trigger guard

18397

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels, original butt plate

18414

Quality 4 12 ga.

28” barrels (not s/n to gun, barrels and

forend s/n 19335), forend dogs head escutcheon missing (not a Syracuse trait)

^18415

Quality 4 12 ga. balls.)

30” barrels,(birds and sculptured

18465

Quality 3 10 ga.

30” barrels

^18510

Quality 6 10 ga.

32” barrels (gold dog on trigger guard)

18512

Quality 3 10 ga. gun)

32” barrels (2 barrel set, only #2 with

^18557

Quality 2 12 ga. order)

28” barrels (possibly cut or special

18560

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels (Dogs head butt plate) 8 lb. 6

oz.

18587

Quality 5 10 ga.

30” (Brophy’s book) Jacob Glahn

engraved & signed, Pictures. (stock has added piece on pistol grip, might have originally been straight stock), 8 lb. 14 oz.

18617

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels

18640

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

^18660

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels (2.76” wide frame)

^18732

Quality 2 12 ga. dovetailed in)

18756

30” barrels (1 inch stock extension

receiver parts put up for sale on Gun Broker

^18759

Quality 6 12 ga.

30” barrels, 6 gold inlays

18769

Quality 6 12 ga.

30“ barrels, “The Legend Lives” photo

18785

Quality 3 10 ga. (John Houchins)

32“ barrels, “The Legend Lives” photo

18815

Quality 2 10 ga.

receiver only

^18843

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels, 10 lb. 5.8 oz., uncheckered?

^18928

Quality 3 12 ga.

32” barrels

18962

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

18967

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” fluid steel barrels, (re-barreled ?) ,

pictures

18974

Quality 2

(Serial number from receiver and lock plates

Brophy’s book pg. 46)

19008

Quality 2 10 ga.

19038

Quality 3 10 ga.

30” full/full

^19109

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

19208

Quality 5 12 ga.

32” barrels, (returned to Fulton in 1901 for

a set of A1 barrels)

19212 30” barrels, dogs head butt plate

19283

Quality 2 10 ga. (owned by Terry Nix)

19311

Quality 2 10 ga.

19312

Quality 2 10 ga.

Has patent date of Mar. 29?,’83

19320

Quality 2 10 ga.

Barrels cut and honed out.

19335

Quality 4 12 ga.

28” barrels only (#4 on water table) on

gun 18414 Qlty 4

^19377

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

^19398

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels

19429

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels, Trap Grade butt plate

19478

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

^19491

Quality 2 10 ga.

barrels (re-barreled in steel)

19494

Quality 2 10 ga

30” barrels, L.C. Smith butt plate

19498

Quality 2 10 ga. proofed

re-barreled in Italy to steel in 1960,

19500

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

19513

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels original butt plate

19517

Quality 2 10 ga. 10.8 oz.

30” barrels, 24 lpi checkering, 9 lb.

19593

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

^19732

Quality 2 12 ga.

26” & 30” barrels, w/ 2 forends

^19746

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels, (barrels s/n 19475)

19767

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

19773

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

^19778

Quality 3 12 ga.

30” barrels

19932

Quality 4 10 ga. barrels have Fulton address (Fulton re-barrel), (From Russ’s info “birds marked “Hunter” on barrels, have pictures)

^19955

Quality 4 12 ga.

19966

Quality 2 12 ga.

19974

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels, (small frame)

30” barrels, 1 1/8” c/c firing pin, original

butt plate

20112

Quality 2 10 ga 30” barrels fitted with hammer barrels s/n 10827, also has original set

20149

Quality 2 12 ga. 28” cut, (L.C. Smith Trap Gun butt plate orig.), barrels honed to .743

20187

Quality 2 12 ga.

20194

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” full/full, (recoil pad added)

28 ½” (cut), -9 lb. on bathroom scale

20199

Quality 2 10 ga.

20202

Quality 4 10 ga.

20279

10 ga.

20283

Quality 2 10 ga.

28” barrels (might be cut)

^20300

Quality 7 10 ga.

32” barrels, (gold dog on trigger guard,

Engravings of woodcock on right, 2 partridge on left, Setter on point on trigger guard, (pictures)

stepped side plates.)

20302

Quality 3 12 ga.

30” barrels

20312

Quality 2 12 ga.

26” barrels-cut, originally 32” (Part of

Sherman Bell’s “Finding Out for Myself”, Spring 2007 Double Gun Journal)

20317

Quality 7 12 ga.

28” & 30” barrels

20330

Quality 5 time)

3 barrel set (probably done at a later

20335

Quality 3 12 ga. Re-barreled in Fulton with Armor Steel (lug is still squared to fit Syracuse receiver)

20379

Quality 2 10 ga.

(gun set up for left handed, left barrel fires

first), pictures

20446

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels, (Dogs foot on rock butt plate),

pictures, 9 lb. 2 oz.

20449

Quality 2 10 ga.

20478

Quality 2 10 ga.

? Barrels

20507

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

20519

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

20536

Quality 2 10ga. frame

32” barrels, 10 lb. 15 oz., heavy weight

20541

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels

^20556

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels, (re-stocked)

^20598

Quality 5 10 ga.

30” barrels, (Gold monogram on trigger

guard-Brophy’s book)

^20604

Quality 2 10 ga.

26” barrels-cut

20615

Quality 2 12 ga.

28 11/16”, (barrels-cut)

20643

Quality 3

(John Houchins)

^20647

Quality 3 12 ga.

20656

Quality 3 12 ga.

20678

Quality 2 12 ga.?

All three patent dates

^20681

Quality 3 10 ga.

28” barrels, (possibly cut or special order,

27” barrels-cut

needs forend)

20690

Quality 5 10 ga.

30” barrels, (stepped side plates)

20700

Quality 4 12 ga. order)

28” barrels, (possibly cut or special

20761

Quality 2 12 ga.

20780

Quality 2 12 ga.

28” barrels (cyl/cyl., cut), 7 lb. 4 oz.,

(scale in picture)

20802

Quality 2 12 ga.

28” barrels (cut?). diamond metal escutcheon

in for-end

10 ga.

30” barrels, r. 758, l. 762

20840

Quality

208xx

Quality 2 12 ga

26” barrels-cut (pictures)

^20870

Quality 5 12 ga.

30” barrels, (barrels only on ebay)

^20875

Quality 2 12 ga.

Re-barreled with 30”

20944

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

20984

Quality 7 12 ga. Barrels cut to 25”, some gold engravings, side plate has Glahn signature

20994

Quality 2 12 ga.

30” barrels

21093

Quality

32” barrels

21141

Quality F 10 ga.

10 ga.

32” Stub Twist, 10 lb. 8 oz., (grafted comb

piece added)

21211

Quality D 10 ga.

32” barrels, hammer gun

22020

Quality 2 10 ga. oz.

30” barrels, trap gun butt plate, 9 lb. 8

22061

Quality

32” barrels, no engraving (poor condition

12 ga.

Gun Broker 9-2010)

22087

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels, diamond escutcheon

^22145

Quality 7 12 ga. cap inlay)

30” barrels, (grade marked, has grip

^22216

Quality 7 10 ga.

30” barrels, (not grade marked, re-barreled

to 12 ga. Steel)

^22255 22287

0 Grade

12 ga.

30” barrels, (transition gun-twist steel)

Quality ? 10 ga. 28 ½” barrels (cut), right barrel marked Stub Twist, left barrel marked L.C. Smith Maker Syracuse, N.Y. (re-barreled with hammer gun barrels), pictures, no engraving on side plates.

22338 22378

Quality 2 12 ga.

22452

Quality 2 12 ga.

22519

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels, (all 3 patent dates)

22540

Quality 2 12 ga.

32” barrels

22559

Quality 6 10 ga.

30” barrels

22605

Quality 2 10 ga. forend wood)

30” barrels, (diamond shaped insert in

22631

Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 7 lb. 4 oz. ,from an original hang tag of 1887, medium weight frame)

22640

Quality 2 12 ga.

22643

Quality 2

22649

Quality 2 12 ga. forend)

26” barrels, (cut, diamond inlay on

22733

Quality 2? 10 ga. 32 ½” barrels, (no engraving on side plates and on trigger guard, only lines with serial #)

22752

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels, Trap butt plate

22757

Quality 4 12 ga.

30” barrels, 7 lb. 10 oz., Trap butt plate

22781

Quality 2 10 ga.

30” barrels

22793

Quality

30” barrels

22796

Quality 2 12 ga.

22803

Quality 2 12 ga. wrist.

32” barrels, pictures, repair on stock

22840

Quality

30” Twist Steel, pictures, 10 lb+ , ( no

12 ga.

10 ga

engraving on side plates)

22893

Quality 7 12 ga.

25” barrels

22972

Quality 2 10 ga.

breech balls 2 ¾” across

^23055

Quality 3 10 ga. guard)

32” barrels, (John S. Clark on trigger

23061

Quality 2 10 ga.

32” barrels

23152

Quality 2 10 ga.

Receiver only-Gun Broker

#23339

Quality 2 12 ga.

28 lpi and drop point checkering

23033

23386 23475

12 ga. 30” barrels Quality 7 12 ga. ? barrels, scalloped side plates, Unfinished Syracuse Quality 7 finished in Fulton now as an A2 by Hunter Arms, presented to Lyman C. Smith (some discrepancies) in 1891-2 by John Hunter (page 326 “The Legend Lives”) Initials on trigger guard,no ejectors. Tom Archer notes: “gun is in appearances a Syracuse Quality 7 butwas built by Hunter Arms in Fulton.”

25470

Quality F? 12 ga 26” barrels-cut, L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse on barrels, pictures.

2562X

Quality F 10 ga.

259xx

Quality F

25627

Quality F 10 ga.

26117

Quality F

26027

Quality F 10 ga.

30” barrels, square lug

26644

Quality F 12 ga.

Twist barrels

26872

Quality F 12 ga.

Stub twist barrels

30” barrels, picture

30” Twist Steel barrels, Trap Gun butt plate. 30” barrels

^ guns were from Russ Ruppels research * serial numbers from John? that I didn’t have. All other serial numbers either from members and/or auction sites. Shotguns in italics are hammer guns.

27043

Quality 3

(trigger guard only)

*16566

Quality 2 12 ga. cut barrels, (round lug), has Syracuse attributes, but has rounded lug

59584

Quality 2-Grade 2 12 ga.,(Ducks & Quail) (square corners on lug), barrels marked Fulton

30028

Very early Fulton gun, has squared lug no engraving, large convex ribs, fine checkering, no engraving, stub twist barrels

30099

Very Early Fulton, large convex ribs, 10 ga., 30” barrels, engraved like early Fulton Qlty 2 squared lug, pictures

30709

Quality 2 12 ga.

31534

Very early Fulton gun with square lug, border engraving, tapered breech balls and not as large in relationship to Syracuse guns.

32146

Quality ?

30” barrels, 7 lb. 10 oz., Trap butt plate

30” Twist Steel barrels, Syracuse style

checkering and for-end insert, single line engraved around lock plate, like early 0 grade.

36992

Quality

*16905

Shotgun has to be early 1887 gun, if only 281 built from August 1886 starting at 16xxx, serial numbers cannot be sequential.

23339

Shotgun has Fulton attributes, narrow convex ribs, rounded lug, early Fulton Quality 2 engraving.

39241

Shotgun has convex lumps and is Fulton gun (1895)

39252

Shotgun has no ribs ( 9 numbers different) (1895)

1047

2E has convex lumps and is dated as being finished Mar.4, 1896

Anyone having information or serial numbers on these early guns, I would appreciate the information. Thanks, J. David Williamson email [email protected]